tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post5412549871228740544..comments2023-10-06T09:08:46.370-05:00Comments on Americans Against Abuses of Polygamy: Polygamy: A Matter of ConsentBootshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08952413406129045556noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-6467781953843954172014-02-11T16:31:15.971-06:002014-02-11T16:31:15.971-06:00I apologize for spelling, punctuation, and grammat...I apologize for spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors. It was typed fast.Dr. Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-90630499081733178942014-02-11T16:24:27.216-06:002014-02-11T16:24:27.216-06:00I see many problems with these arguments. 1. Gay m...I see many problems with these arguments. 1. Gay marriage doesn't produce "external forces such as threats of destruction?" Christianity as a whole has preached the same destruction (as mentioned in this article about women) about the gay community...AND ALWAYS HAS. Leviticus 18:22 and 22:13. Saddam and Gomorrah was apparently destroyed because of it!! It has long been a part of Christian doctrine and has been taught even after the fulfilling of the law by Jesus Christ. Christians do in truth, teach that all those who do not accept Jesus or understand him, doctrine and scripture differently will not enter into heaven! I see zero basis for the argument that duty to religion or fear is where they connive the women when all churches teach a similar concept and members respond the same way.<br /><br />2.Several studies which you fail to mention report the same percentages of healthy, unabusive, and happy families as monogamist marriages. Several woman whom I have had the honor of knowing personally, express quite the opposite experience of yours. Stating they wouldn't feel complete without a "sisterwife." They have specifically stated they feel no pressure and that if they desired to leave...they would do so without fear of hell or suffering. Mormon prophet Brigham Young made the statement the lifestyle would damn more people than it would save! A statement these people very apparently realize and accept as truth. Merry's words to me were, " I think the lifestyle attracts the best of best...Along with the sickest of the sick." Also many branches of polygamy see little/no increase in crime. In fact there are several communities in which it is lower. <br /><br />3rd: It is unfair and inaccurate to say polygamist men control a family. Many sects of polygamy are in every way equal partnerships. In many cases the woman is controlling and believe it more than the men. Men leave due to hardships in approximately the same numbers as women. Is each 1 share owner of business which 3 shares any less an equal partner if run as we would assume? NO.<br /><br />3. I know all churches preach the same love. I know all churches have mass amount of people leave believing that they were subject to methods of control. All Religion is a method of control whether its for right or wrong reasons, People are generally happy in religion and its not all a big setup where people hold in their feelings. As a Christian I see no valid basis for any point made in this article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-6731011680304417562011-09-18T01:55:23.817-05:002011-09-18T01:55:23.817-05:00I was pointing out that given the different status...I was pointing out that given the different status of men and women traditionally that similar arguments to those made in this article could have been used against such marriages, and there are those (such as some Feminists) who would still use similar arguments against even modern civil marriage (some calling that slavery). Although I am certainly not promoting such a view.<br /><br />I wont defend every plural union (and I doubt anyone would try to defend every monogamous one), but personally I condemn any relationship formed or maintained through pressure in any way, or anything that would disadvantage a woman in her choice of partner or profession. (Interestingly some of the first female doctors in Utah attributed their ability to study in and take on that profession to the support of their sister wives.)<br /><br />There is an idea that plural marriage is an easy ride for the men involved. Imagine for a moment you are a deeply religious man seeking to serve God, whose faith includes the idea that to be with those he loves for eternity requires him having multiple wives. Your motivation is not lust, power, or greed. It may be a trial of a man's faith, traditions, and inclinations. But he is seeking to do what he believes is part of his devotion to God and for the love of his family. <br /><br />In all matters of religious faith there are obligations that are seen as divine in which those who comply are promised or expect blessings in this life or the hereafter, or may be in danger of losing such blessings if they do not abide that principle. Some will look upon this as an opportunity, others as a burden. Mormonism is not unique in this.<br /><br />I do not believe in arranged marriage, and I would hope that no woman would consider marrying me or remain married to me unless they both love me and feel God has directed them personally to do so (as an answer to prayer).<br /><br />Because I don't feel this is the best venue for me to discuss these matters I'll leave my comments here, hoping I have given some insight into a different outlook.Nathanhttp://allofthegospel.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-30730845459588913672011-09-16T22:10:12.701-05:002011-09-16T22:10:12.701-05:00Don't see how the "inevitable conclusion&...Don't see how the "inevitable conclusion" of the above article has any relevance to monogamy. The thrust of the argument appears to be about compromised consent because of types of co-ercion. There are no comparable pressures for women to comply with monogamy (which may be negotiated in an equitable way) whereas inequities are inherent in polygamy.FreeAndClearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-11597067428694570302011-09-16T20:53:32.604-05:002011-09-16T20:53:32.604-05:00Nathan C.'s wives need brother husbands.Nathan C.'s wives need brother husbands.Keeping Sweetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-51852633403619405132011-09-16T18:39:32.167-05:002011-09-16T18:39:32.167-05:00I'm sorry, Nathan, but I can't see the log...I'm sorry, Nathan, but I can't see the logic in your argument. I see no parallel between polygamous marriage and monogamous marriage regarding disadvantages to women. In a monogamous marriage, a woman enters into a contract with a man as an equal. Each has the same responsibilities and the same rights within that relationship. There is no physical, emotional, or spiritual extortion used to get the woman to agree to the partnership. Husband and wife legally have the same rights to the assets from the partnership and although one partner, by agreement of the couple, may have more control over the finances as he or she assumes the responsibility of paying the bills, it is often the woman who has this control. In our society, she has the same access to education and often has the opportunity to pursue a career which provides her freedom to remain in the relationship or not if the relationship becomes dysfunctional or oppressive. <br /><br />You say that the plural family "may feel a sense of mission that means facing and overcoming...jealousies," but in fact it is only the women that are forced to overcome jealousies. The husband has numerous privileges that are not accorded to the wife (or wives) under any circumstance.<br /><br />There are some choices that even two consenting adults do not have in our society and that is because it is seen as detrimental either to the adults or to society. You and I might agree that I would be your slave in return for your providing me with food and shelter, but our laws would not permit us to have that relationship because it is seen as a relationship that damages at least one of the participants. Polygamy is the same.Chananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1851093051105566349.post-83933736704771469852011-09-16T16:23:07.737-05:002011-09-16T16:23:07.737-05:00Taken to its inevitable conclusion wouldn't th...Taken to its inevitable conclusion wouldn't this ultimately be an argument against even monogamous marriage? Feminists have made a similar rationale against marriage in all its forms, and what they would see as the unreasonable pressures and obligations it puts upon women.<br /><br />Indeed, for a large part of history marriage has taken away many rights from women. Yet knowing this there were still women who chose that union and men who honored their wife within it, and offered support which the legal institution did not.<br /><br />It could be argued that marriage even now disadvantages women financially, educationally, and professionally. Yet to some women it is seen as a partnership, and to Christian women it is looked upon as a sacred relationship between them, their spouse, and God.<br /><br />A soldier conscents to some restrictions and risks to his life to carry out what he considers to be his sense of duty, a person who devotes their life to serving amongst lepers would miss out on some of regular societies convienciences, but might feel amply rewarded by their sense of purpose and feel compensated by other parts of their life. Each of these definitely has potential harms - like marriage or life in general, but is not necessarily harmful in and of themselves.<br /><br />A plural family may feel a sense of mission that means facing and overcoming insecurities and jealousies. A woman may feel a calling to that way of life, and a man may act solely in service to his wives. Together they may function at varying levels of success, and we looking in from the outside may not judge that the same as they would.<br /><br />In none of these types of scenarios is it possible to fully anticipate the challenges ahead, but each person makes their decisions with an ideal in my mind, and as an exercise of faith. Although some will ultimately choose differently, others will find their fulfillment in the circumstances others found too challenging. <br /><br />Protecting others from the choices we feel they shouldn't make might work if we were there parents, had some obligation to oversee them, and had some right because of their lack of age and maturity. However, it is no way to treat adults.Nathanhttp://allofthegospel.comnoreply@blogger.com